October Meetings 2009

Whew! I had a lot to go through, as I got my hand on the October meetings at CiM. I finally finished watching and listening to them all. My initial result was 39 new clips. There was a lot of stuff to discuss or was of note. But I decided to not share some as they were of smaller consequence, and also combined a few of them. But I may not put them all in this post, and will probably have a 2nd post covering the meetings.

The night services were pretty full, but as I noted before there is less sitting room at CiM now than when I was there, unless they lengthened the building or changed the size of the main service hall. That is because they lengthened the platform and made room for dancing and ministry up front. So there are less chairs now. But the morning services had a lot less people.

These meetings uncovered some very important stuff, and confirmed things I have been sharing. But there was some new stuff for me as well, and will get into that below.

I will be getting more into doctrines and theology with Randy, because at least 30% of what he does in error is because of bad doctrines. And these meetings he shared his beliefs on judgement and there was some really heavy stuff that got me really upset and grieved. I made a clip from that, that has angered me more than any I have ever made. More on that below.

I will start with what began with Ray Bade giving the story of his life and how he left the church in Denver where Marilyn Hickey ministers. This was the biggest and most elaborate telling of Ray Bade’s story I have heard. Some details I knew of, others I did not. But I decided I wasn’t going to make clips of this, as Ray is not the center of CiM, nor does his influence cause the majority of the problems at CiM. He is a tool of Randy, and a “yes man” of Randy, and therefore the wrongs he does is on Randy, though he will have to stand before God as well on personal account of such. Anyways, if you wish to hear the details of his life, listen to Tuesday AM service of the 2009 October meetings, titled: “How to Come out of Babylon” though I highly recommend not paying for it or anything to support Randy’s administration.

This story by Ray, moved Randy and the services in a certain direction, where it was prophesied Ray and perhaps 2 other older men, would be used to help pastors leave the Babylonian church system. It was also stated that Randy would take Ray on trips to meetings elsewhere because Ray would be anointed to help reach pastors. It was also prophesied that many of these pastors would move to CiM.

In this 1st clip, Randy speaks about how CiM is the voice of God:

In the next clip, I believe it starts with Dwayne (not sure), and ends with Randy, both prophesying that men will come to CiM again:

The next clip gets more specific. Randy talks about it will be pastors coming, and he and Ray will go together to other places. Listen here:

And this brings me to another topic I have been skirting the edges on, but will deal with more directly. And that is Randy’s doctrine of ordaining elders and not gifts.  Here he mentions it:

While Randy has some valid points that many men of God promote their gift as a title, and do so wrongly, all elders are men who have doma gifts. There are no elders that do not have such gifts. At least elders qualified by God and His word. I will share a little bit from my webpage on the subject of church government:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/doma.html

The apostles and other doma gifts are equated with the term elder. Here are verses that put apostles and elders in the same category: 

Acts 15:2,4,6,22
Acts 16:4

More verses equating eldership with doma gifts: 

1 Tim 2:7
2 Tim 1:11

———

While it is true there is a charisma of ruleth, and that many elders may have such a charisma, to be an elder one must have a doma gift as well. Not all doma’s are elders, but all elders have doma gifts.

Randy is taking the priesthood of the believer to far. I believe he is mixing this error from bad doctrine, and a defensive desire to protect his own disqualified eldership, and also from the demonic shepherding/fatherhood teachings he pushes.

In this next clip Randy talks about how he addressed this at TBN. Listen here:

The next clip isn’t very clear to the point I want to make, but eludes to a connected problem here. Randy tries to excuse his sins and errors by the grace of God, and he connects that grace to his right to be a priest, and then uses that priesthood to authorize his eldership. Listen here:

And while it is true that our priesthood and salvation are not based on works, eldership and being a bishop is!

Titus 1:
5: … ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
7: For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Moving over into this problem, here is a clip where Randy says he gives grace to his flesh. Now remember all these clips, come from the 2009 October meetings. Here’s the clip:

Now if you listen to that clip he says it doesn’t offend God if someone doesn’t intentionally grieve Him. Jeff made a similar comment a couple years ago, and you can find that in my archived audio clips. If that’s true then why does Randy wanna stop other churches from making government error, and then take down men of God and some churches?  You see Randy and his administration are hypocrites! It’s okay if they oops, but if anyone else does they have to be corrected! Their doctrine and practice are not in alignment. Yet Randy states in this next clip everything he ministers is shewbread, and is stuff he has walked in:

Ok, the next clip is a bit longer, and shows that Randy doesn’t want anyone to make unrighteous judgments. Yet in later clips I will share, he makes such judgments. Another evidence of his hypocrisy. But this clip is more than that as well. This starts getting into his judgment teachings. And when he mentioned he was gonna minister on the subject early on, I knew it was a service I wanted to hear, because it would be very important and it was. Though I had to wait a few days before they got to it, it wasn’t a very long teaching when he did it. But it was very revealing. But on today’s service, 2 weeks after the meeting, he discussed this a bit saying he didn’t get into the details as much as he wanted. But I don’t have clips of today’s service ready nor am I gonna get into that here. Ok here is the clip, and then I will make comments on it afterwards:

He starts by saying he is never under charismatic witchcraft until a christian judges him. A direct attack immediately against those who would judge him as being under satan’s grip. A quick firm declaration, to make it seem so. He then goes into detail how folks should not defend themselves. True, to a point, but we must always answer for our teachings and doctrines. While some may accuse Randy of other things, and he specifically mentions the internet (me). And while I have accused Randy of other errors besides bad doctrines, I have had witnesses of them. In a later clip, he discusses that we don’t judge by such witnesses! But this being quiet is also a self defence, because he has no defense against these verses:

1 Tim 3:2  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Titus 1:
6  If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

They have been attempting to bypass this by using the royal priesthood as their authority, yet he ministers and rules as an elder. Now recently I had seriously uncovered Randy’s sins against marriage with my Kirk Cameron page:

http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/kirk-cameron-cim/

Someone thought that such blatant exposure of his sins may even be a cause of him running off to South Africa for 2 months, starting next week. While I don’t believe this to be a direct result, because they have been talking about this trip since before I made the page, I do believe Randy may be trying to secure South Africa as well as Cincinnati, in case things fall through in Marshall, because so many people have been leaving.

Anyways, back to the clip, he goes on to say he doesn’t need to go the internet to explain himself, or have meetings and such. Yet Dana, wrote a letter to Kirk Cameron defending Randy when I sent him an email. He is such a hypocrite!  Then he discusses the work of Jesus that made him right. Still ignoring the scriptural mandate of Bishop and Elder qualifications. He then talks about that it isn’t even needed to judge someone to failure because if they are in sin, they are  judged already and will fall. And if that is his stance, why does he want to destroy churches in South Africa or elsewhere, and bring down men of God who are in error? More of Randy’s hypocrisy! Then he goes on listing certain accusations, particularly those on the internet, and says to ignore them, yet Dana wrote that letter of defense. Then one more time he talks about how everyone should be rejected and go to hell. But they were made righteous by God. Now if that is his stance, why doesn’t Randy ordain women? Since Jesus righteousness excuses and destroys the eldership qualifications, then such is true for women being ministers as well, since in Christ there is no male or female?! More of Randy’s hypocrisy!

So you can see there is some serious doctrinal error by Randy on this. That clip was chocked full of his error. I did oops though, I miss labeled that clip as unrighteous judgment, when the clip didn’t discuss it. However, the next one does. This is the clip where Randy talks about folks making unrighteous judgment and defines it. Listen here:

That was one of those clips I made by combining them. This was originally 2 different clips. I combined them because it was the same subject matter and wanted to reduce the # of clips.

In that clip he defines unrighteous judgment as those with consequence or indictment, and is not by discernment (discussed more in detail below), and gives an example of how there is a consequence, “these folks need to be…” and so on. Then he ends by discussing that these types of things are really accusations and not judgments, because it’s by what is seen.

An unrighteous judgment is a judgment that is wrong, or the punishment for the crime is wrong. These are to be based off of testimony and witness, not feelings, more about this below. It is not unrighteous because someone simply states there is a penalty that should be done.

In this next clip, Randy gives such a judgment. He lists a deed, one which he judges by observation, and makes an indictment. He calls them immature. Listen here:

Now as shown in that clip, Randy discusses folks who have been offended and sin. And as I shared before, even quoting a former elder, Randy purposefully offends those who won’t submit. In this clip, you can hear Randy specifically say he loves when such happens:

This is the same thing as when kids or soulish adults make fun of someone to make themselves feel better. This feeling is based off the sin, the pride of life. The lust to rule. And when someone at CiM won’t submit to Randy or is a threat, Randy will offend them purposefully to get them to sin. Then as seen in the clip above, will denounce them as immature. This is what Randy did to his 1st wife, to drive her to divorce him, and then blame her. All because Randy wants to rule and be a king. And here is a new clip of him declaring his kingship:

I have one more clip of Randy in unrighteous judgment. This one is him discussing what I call “the Left hand of Resistance”. Listen here:

You see it’s Righteous Judgment when he observes something and makes a declaration, but Unrighteous Judgment when someone does it against him. He can safely say this is so, not because of witness or testimony, but because he has discernment. And now, here, I finally come to the biggest demonic doctrine I think may exist in Randy’s teachings. The Urim Judgment.

In this next clip Randy discusses the Urim and Thummim. There is not much actually known about these. They are mentioned 7 times only in the Bible and only in the Old Testament. It appears they were gems used by Israelite priests to ask God questions. And God may have made one glow for yes, and the other for no. Again we are not certain of these details. I may have been told about them shortly before I left CiM, though I had ran across them in scripture beforehand. So I went and studied them, and was not impressed. I will discuss more after you listen to the clip here:

Randy goes into how they work (according to his doctrine for New Testament judgment). He claims that these are the exact same thing as the Breastplate of Righteousness. That’s horrible, because our breastplate is our righteousness in Christs’ atonement, and that atonement has no connection to using gems to ask God questions. While Judgment is connected to both, they are not the same. He asks the people to bypass their mind to understand this. In other words he wants people to trust his discernment and swallow this as truth. He states that God placed in us the Urim and Thummim to make judgment, and is the basis for righteous judgment rather than by observation or witness. And he refers to using this as a right. In other words, it’s in his authority to do so, because it’s of Christ priesthood. He specifically says it’s not accumulated knowledge. Yet in the Old Testament we have the 10 Commandments and one of them is do not bear false witness. Why? Because judges rely on witness to accumulate knowledge of the event to be judged. Randy even gives the example of hearing what someone said versus what he feels in spirit when he meets them, and then can determine if something is of the wrong spirit. Now let me ask, especially since I learned this in Marshall, what has more authority: Jesus and the Word, or the Holy Spirit? Is not what has been written and witnessed have more authority? Now what is sad, is that the cult of Mormonism uses feelings to judge as well. They use the good feelings to tell someone they are saved once they accept the doctrine of the Mormons. In my page here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/way.html

I state the following when one tries to find the standard of God:

Some would say that we can use feelings to measure truth. In the natural world, we can see infants and youth led astray by feelings. Adults and teenagers make wrong choices for mates based upon feelings. This is what the Bible say’s about feelings:

Hebrews 5: MKJV
13 For everyone partaking of milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, even those who because of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

What the Bible is showing us is, that only those who are mature can use their senses to know what is good and evil. A person cannot use his senses or emotions to judge if something is from God until they are mature and have already discovered the highest method or standard to find God. So we can conclude that the senses are not the highest standard.

——–

So while we can use feelings to judge, they are not the highest form, and can only be used once we have achieved maturity in Christ. But even such judgments are just basic, and not detailed. To use such to search out the matter of something that need’s judgment solely on feelings, is not God’s way.

2 Cor 13:1: … In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

This is why witness and testimony is important. Randy goes on to say this is how God judges:

Yet this is what the Bible says in how God judges:

Rev 20:12: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And didn’t we learn in Marshall about the Watchers? Angels who record the doings of men? What is the purpose of those watchers? Is it not for judgment? Didn’t God send angels to see what was true for Sodom and Gomorrah? So, no, God doesn’t use squishy feelings for judgments, but accumulated knowledge.

This is why I am so upset with Randy about this. This gives grieves me heavily. But I don’t make my judgment on these feelings, but on what scripture says. Randy is in serious error, and with his unqualified eldership, he bishops and corrects people based on those feelings. He is inspired by the wrong spirits, and they get him to submit by these doctrines of devils.

Did the Urim exist? Sure, the Bible says so. Did the priest’s judge by it? I believe they did, but it wasn’t the center of their judgment or the baseline for such things.

Hopefully knowing this, more people will leave CiM, and other ministers won’t take him seriously any more. This doctrine of judging by the Urim has caused serious damage to the flock, and many have become offended, and because these are doctrines of devils, some who fell, no longer believe in christianity!

Stay tuned for part 2 of the October 2009 meetings

The Church in Marshall and the Rapture

In January of 2007 Randy Shankle  came out preaching a pre-trib rapture. I discussed this when it happened here:

http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/2007/01/22/uncharted-territory/

and in a following week, here:

http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/2007/01/29/10-virgins-the-oil/

In some recent letters to other former CiM members, and with the evidence that Randy may have had some meetings centered about them getting on board the ship (his apostolic ministry perhaps) and that being inspired by reversing what I had already said about him, that he is steering them off coarse and ship wrecking the Church in Marshall. As well as comments by him stating that what I say is a reverse prophecy of God by satan (see my post about this here: http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/2009/08/22/sailed-away-and-shipwrecked/ ), and as also discussed in a recent email, Randy also had stated that I was a man of God who once preached Jesus and him crucified, and now preach Randy Shankle and him crucified, listen to his comment here:

While that comment was a negative one, it also shows he had some respect for me, otherwise he wouldn’t have called me a man of God who preached Jesus crucified. I also had been saying for years that Randy had fallen into his own prophesied trap of not following the Cloud of God and becoming a stale camp. Years ago he would spend time either at Doma Dome (possibly now turned into a church campground) or his prophet’s den in his barn, before a meeting to get revelation.

I know many times, including his teaching on the Merismos, that that came from other men of God. But which he received more revelation on the subject. And that’s cool, because we are to build on the apostles and prophets, there are no new revelations and truths, we only build upon that which has already been laid.

But for awhile now, years really, Randy has had no such new expanded revelation. Just regurgitated manna or fleshly error or demonic error mixed with old bread from heaven. So I wonder when he began to look elsewhere. And if he acknowledged publicly that he can get revelation from his adversary by using the reverse of what I say. I wonder if he used my rapture teachings over 2 years ago, from my website. I have no problem with that if he did. It just shows that he lost his connection with God. The gifts of God are without repentance. So he can be in sin, have teachings from other places, and use his God given gifts to pump and promote it.

Anyways this post isn’t about him using my teachings if he did. But the fact that he did preach about end times, Revelation, and the rapture. And as noted in my original post on the subject, that just wasn’t done at the Church in Marshall, and was even frowned upon. In fact many who left CiM before that changed hold that position still. Tim LaHay and Jerry Jenkins who wrote the Left Behind series state that because many pastors refuse to teach on end times stuff, that some people tend to know more on the subject because they go to other sources or if they don’t know more, they go looking.

This universalism that has crept into the church even has affected Bible believing churches into ignoring certain subjects, particularly end time stuff, out of fear of saying a mystery which hasn’t been fully revealed and making a mistake, out of fear of offending folks who don’t believe or wanna believe, out of fear for their wallets, and so on. All out of fear.

While it is true that teachers and preachers will be held accountable for bad teachings, God still wants us to preach. Nothing is certain in christianity except Jesus and Him crucified. Our entire belief system is based on faith, not fact.

This is why I state the following on my own Tenet page from my website:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/tenet.html

15. Everything I teach and believe is by faith. God made it so that we need the church and ministers to teach us doctrine. The Bible is not meant to be a handi-book of easy to read doctrines. The doctrines must be dug out and taught. For this reason, ministers will receive a stricter judgment. While many of my beliefs are accepted thru most of christendom and many of my more “rare” teachings are from a handful of ministers, I have gleaned many truths from many different sources. One of my favorite sayings is “a broken clock is right 2 times a day”. One of the baptisms in the Bible is called the Baptism into the Cloud (1 Cor 10:2). This baptism is God’s calling the church to follow after Him. This is often results in the restoration of doctrine and theology. The Reformation is a prime example of this. What often happens tho, is man follows God to a lost truth then makes a camp there, refusing to follow God further. We can glean truths from such stale camps, but should continue to follow God ourselves.

Isa 28:10: For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

1 Cor 13:12: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

1 Cor 2: LITV
2 For I decided not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ, and Him having been crucified.

—————-

Hence we must go out in faith on some teachings, but wait, isn’t it faith on all teaching? So some teachings take more faith. I wish I could find it somewhere, I have a tape where Jeff Arrington prophesies over me that I have the charisma of faith. If I ever do, I will post it. But it is true, I have the charisma of faith. And just as they taught at CiM and discipleship concerning the other gifts, teaching is the same thing.

Gal:3:5: He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

But is faith some mysterious thing with an unknown source? Where does faith come from?

Rom:10:17: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Even Bruce DeLay has not come out publicly on end time teachings. Many times in emails he refused to discuss with me what he believed. But has condemned a pre-trib rapture.  He says he preaches from Revelation in some of his services, but won’t tell me what they are, nor does he put them on his website. And when I share that Math 22:1-13 shows us the wedding feast is in heaven. Luke 12:35-40 shows us that Jesus will return for the church left behind, after the wedding. These are Biblical statements. Bruce won’t read them literally. He believes they are allegorical. Perhaps, but Sir Isaac Newton said:

“About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition.” Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727 

This is another difference between Bruce and I. I believe in taking the Bible literally in every instance unless the text tells me not to. The reason I believe this comes from one of Bruce’s own teachings. Called the doctrine of the Nicolaitins. Found here:

http://www.church.sierra-vista.az.us/church/tst/nicolaitanes.htm

That teaching states (comes from Revelation) some will split the church into clergy and laity. Bruce is against that. However, any time one takes a passage of the Bible and forces it’s interpretation to come from special knowledge (sometimes called gnosticism) then you create laity. God does not want truth to be something gleaned by special knowledge. He wants us to be able to pick up the Bible and know Him and His ways. So Bruce says you have to go to college to understand some parts of the Bible, that you can’t read some parts literally. That causes a division between clergy and laity. When we all are priests before God. So I believe Newton was right. Many argue today about taking the Bible literally. And a line has been drawn, those who oppose a literal reading and those who believe in a literal reading. Newton’s prophesy of that fact came true. Another interesting thought is, if you don’t believe in reading some parts of the Bible literally, who decides which parts? That again creates a hierarchy in the church which God hates. God hates the doctrine of the Nicolaitins.

Rv:2:15: So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

I love Bruce, he’s an awesome man of God and a good brother, but this is where I differ with him, and why I told him that even the Old Testament prophesies that the end time shepherds are going to fail, and even though he is a good pastor, he is part of a broken system. So when I had that discussion with him I wrote the following blog post:

http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/a-major-source-of-division-how-to-understand-scripture/

It’s a popular post and one which I may make into a permanent page.

A lot of times, folks don’t want to believe something in the Bible as literal, because it goes against the tradition. And these folks might not even be Catholic, but we must remember all humans like tradition, not just Catholics. We have to break tradition, if it interferes with God’s word. If the Bible says that the wedding is in heaven and then states that Jesus will come to the earth after the wedding, then that means a pre-trib rapture is true. That is a literal reading of the Bible.

Bruce argues that a pre-trib rapture has caused many christians to be lazy. Perhaps. But does the fear of counterfeit money make us stop believing in real money? People can misuse any doctrine, and until recently I fully realized the rapture isn’t about escape but is about judgment. A small recent revelation here.

I knew that the rapture wasn’t an escape, because I teach a partial rapture, seen here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/prepare.html

And I also knew that judgment was falling on those in the church left behind and they will become the latter rain here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/latter.html

But I finally put 2 and 2 together and realized the rapture is about judgment. And while I preach a coming judgment on America, judgment must begin in the church 1st. The judgment on America is an end time thing, and therefore the church must be judged 1st.

1Pt:4:17: For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

So under this understanding, there is no concern that the rapture is about escape, because it’s about going out of the frying pan and into the fire. Jesus is going to purify His church before His wedding.

Folks from CiM have been very resistant against end times teachings, especially those who left before Randy started preaching a partial pre-trib rapture. But do a little research, how many people actually preach a partial pre-trib rapture? Not many. Yet I preached it before Randy, do you think he was motivated by those teachings? Unfortunately he mixed it with dead works and other error.

Two main points I am trying to address are:

1. All teaching requires faith. No need to avoid end times teaching because it requires it.

2. We must take scripture literally or else we create Gnosticism or the doctrine of the Nicolaitins.

This does not mean I don’t have error. I am quite certain I do. I am going on faith. But I am going. I am looking forward to the day when we see clearly and prophecy will end. But that day hasn’t come yet.

Are we to always resist satan?

Scripture says:

James 4:7: Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

But is resisting every work and plan of satan an absolute? At 1st thought one may say yes. But think about it. If every plan of his is to be disrupted and has no plan in God, wouldn’t God have chained him and all the demons away instead of a few? Yes, some demons are locked away until judgement:

2 Pet 2:4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

And if satan’s actions require 100% resistance, why did Jesus follow satan at all?

Math 4:
1: Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
5: Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Randy Shankle preaches he was visited by demons, and he says he spoke with them, and says we shouldn’t. But Jesus did, and even allowed Himself to be led by him. God also permitted satan to test Job. And God even say’s the anti-christ will have power over even christians!

Dan 11:
36: And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Rev 13:7: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Yet a certain pastor emails me and says it’s his job to resist the devil in every situation. Including in government.

God sent Babylon to attack Israel for her judgment. Jeremiah said to the Israelites don’t resist Babylon. Yet Babylon was the devil’s playground! But God sent Babylon. He uses corrupt governments to bring judgment. Just like I believe he used demons to bring the plagues on Egypt. Why else did Paul say:

1 Cor 5:
4: In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5: To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Perhaps that’s what Jesus meant when He said:

Mt:16:19: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

We can bind and loose angels and demons. And that’s what Paul did there. And what Peter did here:

Acts 5:
3: But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
5: And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
7: And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8: And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9: Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

Some insist that God or the angels did that and not demons. But didn’t Jesus say:

John 10:10: The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

So when dirty works needs to be done, God allows the demons to do it. And they will do it gladly. Why else did David refuse to hurt Saul, and then punished the man who claimed to have killed Saul?

This is why I preach to not resist the corrupted governments in the world today. God is going to use them to bring judgement, to usher in the anti-christ, and then Jesus Himself will return and destroy his one world order.

This is why we do not always resist satan!

  

—————————

The pastor mentioned above, says this is my opinion and not Biblical, even tho over half of what is stated above is from the Bible. But I have another witness. I found this on Google here:

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:00_9YEBlKB0J:www.heavensfamily.org/uploads/5r/en/5renJ3FrGrODo1_taw-nrQ/gt_10.pdf

You can download the whole chapter here:

http://www.heavensfamily.org/uploads/5r/en/5renJ3FrGrODo1_taw-nrQ/gt_10.pdf

 

God’s Tests

 

By David Servant

TEN

 

Satan—Tool of God’s Judgment
Let’s take one more look at the subject of God’s restraining power over Satan. Through this chapter I want to help you understand how God uses Satan to bring about His discipline or judgment in the lives of the disobedient.

Let’s first consider two interesting Old Testament examples. The first one is found in Judges 9 and 10.

You perhaps remember the story of Gideon, and how God used him to defeat the Midianites with an army of only three hundred men. You may not remember that Gideon became the father of seventy-two sons by several wives and at least one concubine. After Gideon died, his concubine’s son, named Abimelech, along with the full support of the people of his home town (Shechem), formed a conspiracy and massacred seventy of Gideon’s sons. Only Jotham, Gideon’s youngest, escaped.

God, of course, was not pleased with Abimelech’s and the Shechemite’s treatment of Gideon’s sons, especially since Gideon had fought on their behalf against the Midianites, resulting in forty years of peace for Israel. The Bible says that God is not mocked, and whatever a man sows that shall he also reap (see Gal 6:7). God guarantees it. Read then how God brought His guarantee to pass in this situation:

Now Abimelech ruled over Israel three years. Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech, in order that the violence done to the seventy sons of Jerubball [Gideon] might come, and their blood might be laid on Abimelech their brother, who killed them, and on the men of Shechem, who strengthened his hands to kill his brothers (Judg. 9:22-24, emphasis added).

The end of the story is that Abimelech slaughtered all the people of Shechem and shortly thereafter he himself was killed in battle—all because of an “evil spirit,” which “God sent.” The question is, does God have evil spirits to send? No, not from heaven, but He does have sovereign control over Satan and his demons. As a result, He can sovereignly permit an evil spirit to gender strife between two parties in order to bring judgment upon them. Why does Scripture say this evil spirit was sent by God? Because the evil spirit came as a direct result of God’s sovereign will to judge a group of wicked
people.

Saul’s Evil Spirit
Another incident illustrating God’s use of Satan as a tool of His judgment had to do with Saul. As the first king of Israel, he was hand-picked by God and assumed his duties with humility and sincerity. Soon, however, Saul committed some serious sins, which disqualified him for having “a kingdom that would endure” (1 Sam. 13:14).

Thereafter, King Saul’s attitude and actions decayed, and he disobeyed God again. When it became clear to him that David, the young giant-slayer, was going to be his replacement, Saul grew jealous. Consequently, the Bible states that “the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and then an evil spirit from God” began to terrorize him (1 Sam.
16:14, emphasis added).

Was that evil spirit actually a spirit from God? In light of the rest of Scripture, it seems more reasonable to conclude that it was one of Satan’s evil spirits, permitted by God to afflict Saul in order to bring him to repentance. God also demonstrated His mercy toward Saul by giving young David an ability to play anointed music that would bring deliverance to Saul’s tormented mind.

Scripture says, “Whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil
spirit would depart from him” (1 Sam. 16:23). God was in effect saying to Saul, “I love you and want you to be free from torment, but you must repent of your selfish jealousy.”

From these two Old Testament examples, we can see how God uses Satan as a tool of His discipline or judgment upon the disobedient.

A New Testament Example
One New Testament example that reveals this same principle is found in Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians. In the church in Corinth, a man was living in an immoral relationship with his step-mother. Yet he was still attending church, and nobody was doing anything about it. Paul instructs the Corinthian believers:

In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus…deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (1 Cor. 5:4-5, emphasis added).

Notice that they delivered the man over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh. Satan is often credited as being the one behind sickness (see Acts 10:38). Also notice that the purpose behind the disciplinary action was so that the man’s spirit would “be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” Hopefully, when the man found his body being assailed with sickness, he would come to his senses and repent of his sin.1

Once more we see God using Satan as a tool of His discipline upon a disobedient person. God is sovereign.

If sickness assails us, should we immediately conclude that God is trying to discipline us? No, sickness can occur for reasons other than God’s judgment. We’ll discuss those other reasons later on. It certainly is wise, however, to do a spiritual examination of our lives any time sickness strikes in order to make sure we have not opened the door to God’s discipline by our disobedience.

1 A similar example is found in 1 Tim. 1:19-20.

Manifest Sons of God exposed

Someone just contacted me, and am guessing they follow the manifest sons of God movment.  

I am gonna go over this email and uncover the errors there. This is to expose the enemy within the camp. The enemy are demons, not men. Their intent is to undermine scripture or its equivalent doctrine. 2 fold reason:

1. It brings about what is needed for the New World Order – peace by destroying any standard of God, being politically correct and making all equal, sinners and saints alike

2. Taking away the power of the church-the Word of God

The email will be the content in blue.

your posture toward randy is no less that of a ” man of blood ” than his

If one reads here:

http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/why-do-i-do-this/

Point #8 and reads here:

http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/consequence-vs-condemnation/

one can see I do not condemn Randy.

he’s no more of a false prophet than every other gifting in the body including you. it’s clear that you both find your identity in a gifting and that’s the problem…some said he was a prophet,some said he was a great teacher. but peter said he was the son of god the christ. men today want to be recognized as a prophet or an apostle andthey want to promote others to find their identity in a gift and/or gifting. it’s only when we find our identity as a son that the gates of hell will not prevail

I took the beginning and end of his email to deal with that subject. He, like many today deny the existence of the doma gifts. Thus when I call Randy a false prophet, it doesn’t matter what qualifications I use, even if their Biblical, anyone claiming they are a doma gift is equally false to this guy because they all are false. None exist.

I also want to add, though I do state I have a doma gift, I do not promote it. It’s for the reason of the pride of man, I do not name what doma gift or gifts I have. The title does not matter. But denying it exists is equally wrong. Scripture is clear they do exist.

Some info from my page here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/doma.html

Eph 4:
8: Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
11: And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

These are the doma gifts, the ascension gifts, or sometimes referred to as the 5-fold ministry. The word doma comes from the greek word “gifts” in Eph 4:8. These doma gifts did not come into the church until Jesus ascended (read verse 8). Before this time, there were apostles, prophets, and teachers, but they were not doma’s. They were gifts from the old covenant. 

I would like to give another scriptural witness to the ascension gifting: 

Math 28:
18: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

This is what Jesus said right before He ascended, commanding the apostles to fulfill the job of the doma’s, described below (just after he lists the doma’s in verse 11): 

Eph 4:
12: For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

—-

Let me ask, have we come to the unity of the faith? Eph 4:13 above.  Does the church still get carried away with winds of doctrines? Eph 4:14? Do denominations still exist? Therefore it is clear that the doma’s still exist. Revelation tells us of 2 coming prophets as well, so we know that doma’s will continue to exist until the earth is judged.

giftings promote governors and tutors and a performance based identity that entraps both the gifting and those exposed to it in a place of immaturity. it promotes the pursuit of prophecy and knowledge. this creates an atmosphere of always looking for something better than what already is.

Are governors and tutors scriptural? Lets look, from my website:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/doma3.html

Church government is not a government of democracy, but Jesus, Himself, is the head of the church.

Eph 4:15: But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ 

Isaiah 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 

Church government is an actual scriptural position as seen here:

1 Cor 12:28: And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 

And to make it more interesting this is most likely from the following gift:

Rom 12: 
6: Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us…
8: … he that ruleth, with diligence… 

——

While we all are high priests, and all can reach God without a mediator, because Jesus is the mediator and God, we have access to God. But we still need to be trained and discipled. Later in his email he states:

this place of sonship is a transformation of identity not character.

These apostates tend to like Randy, but when they can’t get him to cross over to the manifest sons of God movement, they move along with out him. But at least Randy promotes character development through discipleship. But you see that’s why the manifest sons of God movement is connected with Universalism. Everyone is gonna be saved, so it don’t matter how you act. While these folks tend to be ulta conservative and do act morally, they don’t believe its necessary for the attainment of perfection. We all are gonna get there anyways.

You will note he begins to talk about knowledge and that of what is (present tense). I will uncover more of that next. Here is more:

this is what happened in the garden. they thought that by partaking of good and evil that they would be like god and that life would be better in the future. the deception was that they were already like god and already living in a perfect world. the giftings are promoting this same deception. if we just have another word or if we will just be more obedient then god will bless us.

It’s hard to dissect this because he bounces around. You also have to have an understanding of the manifest sons of God, and their code words. Many sects have words that mean something special. This sometimes is to throw off orthodox (normal) christians. But sometimes is similar to what Randy does and uses special language to bring across a certain teaching. Anyways what I believe he is reffering to here, is the idea that the law or Bible is an thing that is not absolute. A friend I knew who fell into the movement described the Bible like an onion. It has layers. But if peel off the layers you never really find the onion, it takes a revelation to understand what the onion means. Here I agree with Constance Cumbey and many Bible scholars. I quoted  some folks here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/interpret.html

“Scripture interprets Scripture.”
–John Calvin

–

Dr. David L. Cooper, the founder of The Biblical Research Society, was proficient in the Biblical languages. He studied Greek under Dr. A. T. Robertson.  Dr. Cooper is known for his “Golden Rule of Interpretation” which is as follows:

When the plain sense of Scripture

        makes common sense,

        seek no other sense;

Therefore, take every word

        at its primary, ordinary, 

        usual, literal meaning

Unless the facts 

        of the immediate context,

        studied in the light 

Of related passages and

        axiomatic andfundamental truths

        indicate clearly otherwise.

[This rule was published regularly in Dr. Cooper's monthly magazine, Biblical Research Monthly.]

–

If God be the originator of language and if the chief purpose of originating it was to convey His message to humanity, then it must follow that He, being all-wise and all-loving, originated sufficient language to convey all that was in His heart to tell mankind.  Furthermore, it must also follow that He would use language and expect people to understand it in its literal, normal, and plain sense.  The Scriptures, then, cannot be regarded as an illustration of some special use of language so that in the interpretation of these Scriptures some deeper meaning of the words must be sought. [Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism (Chicago: Moody Press, 1995), 81.]

–

The Clarifying Statement on Dispensationalism, published by the New England Bible Conference, says it this way: 

The Bible must be interpreted literally which is the way language is normally and naturally understood. We recognize that the Bible writers frequently used figurative language which is a normal and picturesque way of portraying literal truth. The Bible must be understood in the light of the normal use of language, the usage of words, the historical and cultural background, the context of the passage and the overall teaching of the Bible (2 Tim. 2:15). Most importantly, the believer must study the Bible in full dependence upon the SPIRIT OF TRUTH whose ministry is to reveal Christ and illumine the minds and hearts of believers (John 5:39; 16:13-15; 1 Cor. 2:9-16). The natural, unregenerate man cannot understand or interpret correctly the Word of God. The things of God are foolishness to him, he cannot know them (1 Cor. 2:14), and his mind is blinded (Rom. 3:11; 2 Cor. 4:3-4).

——–

Sir Isaac Newton was onto this end day problem:

“About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition.” Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727 

Newton prophesied this very debate. He said there would be 2 groups of people:

1. a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation

2. the midst of much clamor and opposition

So which of these 2 groups, which do exist, do these folks tend to be? Remember he prophesied these 2 groups hundreds of years ago! Newton was a scientist who studied prophecy. He knew that the truth of the end times would continue to unfold the closer we got to the real deal. But this truth is not upon prophecy alone but is on ALL scripture.

Scripture must be taken literally or else it is not divinely inspired. It’s an all or nothing thing.

So this guy writing me is claiming that the New Testament is offering the same knowledge that the Tree of Knowledge offered. You see he’s pointing to that onion philosophy again. If you corner these guys they will say the Bible came from God, but they also will say it takes special knowledge to understand it. They speak of that knowledge as the present truth. It’s that sonship thing, a step farther than Randy.

While it is true some christians run after camps for the next “word”, some have a camp mentality. Often that may not even be a word, or it may be a repackaged word. But sometimes God has a word for the church, because they are stuck at an old level, and aren’t growing. But you see that goes against the mentality of the manifest sons of God. There is no growing. We have it already. That’s why they don’t believe in tutors and govenors, nor doma gifts.

So they think we are after the same thing as Eve from the wrong tree! There are 2 trees. One is the Tree of Life, and that’s God’s word. It brings revelation. The other is the Tree of Knowledge. It brings death.

 sowing and reaping is a performance based identity that is the curse. in the kingdom we can only receive. in the kingdom we enter into our fathers rest and reap what we’ve not sown. if we discern that we are sons then we are not condemned with the world. as sons we are no longer subject to the law of sowing and reaping which derives from good and evil. we are only subject to his chastening. the giftings in the early church laid the foundation. we should be building upon what they’ve already laid. we’ve entered into their labor. and what we’ve tried to do is duplicate what they’ve already done. we should be in a place where ” they shall not teach every man his neighbor and every man his brother saying know the lord. for all shall know me from the least to the greatest.”

You see that are taking the Faith Movement to far. They are claiming to have arrived at pure sonship, without discipleship. And everyone’s is gonna get it, whether they try or not. You see how he completely disregards the New Testament order, claiming it’s complete. We know it’s not complete because these things were not fulfilled:

Eph 4:

 13: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

What gets even worse, is not only is he bypassing the church age, he bypasses the 2nd return of Christ:

 the son of man as alreay returned and he came as a thief in the night. he’s been in us and we have not even known it. the return of the son of man is sonship in our humanity. the perfect already dwells in us therefore prophecy and the pursuit of knowledge can cease. when a man as been awakened to ths reality then his field is blessed and the witness of god is forever present. the witness of god is the synergy of the blood the water and the spirit. the blood is my conscience that affirms that i am a son the water is the woman creation that is liberated from bondage to be one with me and the spirit is the presence of god. any spirit that denies that christ is not already in our humanity is the spirit of error. any gifting that promotes performance and/or something to come vs. what already is is the spirit of error. this place of sonship is a transformation of identity not character.

There is alot of things wrong there. But lets start with something simple. Did Jesus 1st appearance manifest literally as the prophecies foretold? Yes. Then so will His 2nd! Lets take scriptures and prophecies literal. Otherwise one needs special knowledge of scripture to glean truth. And God does not operate that way. I recommend reading all my page here on that subject:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/interpret.html

Some highlights:

When dealing with scripture, 1st you must take a stand. Do you believe it to be inspired fully or not? It’s an all or nothing thing. Anything else causes the Gospel & Bible to become a nice Bed Time story.

2 Pet 1:16: For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

We must also realize this truth:

2 Tim 3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Scripture must be taken literally or else it is not divinely inspired. It’s an all or nothing thing. This does not mean there are not parts that are not literal. In such cases the Bible tells us…

—————

I also suggest this page:

http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/a-major-source-of-division-how-to-understand-scripture/

Gnosticism states one must have special knowledge to understand scripture. There are different forms of this today. One common one, especially amongst denominationalism is education. Many state that the common man cannot understand scripture unless he goes to college.

This is bogus, I am not sure where I learned the following, it may have been from Watchman Nee. In his book “The Normal Christian Life” he discusses the 2 works of the cross…

I think Nee states that in college the deep courses/classes deal with Romans and the work of the cross. But yet, that knowledge should be the standard of the normal christian. Not the educated elite.

Secondly, many believe certain passages in scripture should not be taken literally. This also is a form of Gnosticism. Who decides what is literal and what is not? Then those who decide such become a type of priest that all the other laity must submit to. This is a form of the doctrine of the Nicolaitins. Turning the church into 2 classes, priests and laity. When the church is really made up of everyone being priests.

When scripture is made into symbolism, then it cannot be used for doctrine, and only used for good vs bad. In other words they become bedtime stories to teach morals to people. If that is so, then the gospel itself has become a bedtime story…If one man can say a certain text is a story, then another man can say the gospel itself is. And I know such men! People who believe that life of Jesus is supposed to inspire us to be good. And that’s it. Bogus!

2 Tim 3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Many many people take certain scriptures and tell me I cannot use them for doctrine. Baloney! All scripture is profitable for doctrine, all. Of coarse we cannot take verses, such as when satan says he will overthrow God, and make it into a doctrine. The balance is scripture itself, not special knowledge, not education. If a doctrine from scripture is countered elsewhere, then we must evaluate our interpretation of that verse. Obviously when we read the Bible we see that satan will not overthrow heaven. It is not consistent with the Bible.

But we must be careful here. Some things are not as obvious. For a long time the people did not know salvation is by grace, and were taught it was by works. While scripture tells us the matter, it isn’t as obvious as satan’s defeat. Or how about the number of New Testament baptisms? That’s even less obvious.

Many truths were lost in the dark ages, and we are still digging more out of the Bible. Just because we don’t know about something, or our church doesn’t recognize it doesn’t mean its not true. That is determined by scripture itself.

To base if a doctrine is true by comparing to whether the church has embraced it is very very poor. Why? Here is why: Eph 4.

—-

So many groups, including the Manifest Sons of God, claim to have special knowledge. While they hate doma leadership, it requires leadership to have that revelation! Who told them to substitute literal scriptures with some mystical understanding? Leaders.

His use of the word synergy in his email is one of those mystical code words, also used by the New Age. The Manifest Sons of God movement may be christian in basics, but it’s been corrupted by the same demons as those involved in the New World Order. And notice how he says if we deny that Christ is not already in our humanity we have the spirit of error. Christ is in the humanity of those who accept Him. And it has nothing to do with the humanity. That’s the same sin of the catholics who claim that Mary had something special, and was without sin. There was nothing special about Mary’s humanity. And none of Christ came from her flesh. And none of Christ in us is connected to our flesh. But He does reside in earthen vessels. So its an auto defense by them, when you deny certain beliefs, they close up, and mark you as one who is after the Tree of Knowledge. Yet they cling to their doctrine not on scripture but on special knowledge.

jesus said who do men say that i am. some said he was a prophet,some said he was a great teacher. but peter said he was the son of god the christ.

Some of these guys believe that Paul’s letters were more inspired. I am not gonna get into that debate here. If you wanna learn how the Bible was put together read here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/inspired.html

But I will share this:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon1.html

Gradual and independent definition of the canon by elders. In the year 367 an influential bishop named Athanasius published a list of books to be read in the churches under his care, which included precisely those books we have in our Bibles (with this exception — he admitted Baruch and omitted Esther in the Old Testament). Other such lists had been published by others, as early as the year 170, although they did not all agree. How did the men who published these lists decide which books should be called Scripture? Scholars who have studied this matter closely have concluded that the lists of books are merely ratifications of the decisions of the majority of churches from earliest days. We are able to prove this by examining the surviving works of Irenaeus (born 130), who lived in days before anyone felt it was necessary to list the approved books. He quotes as Scripture all of the books and only the books that appear in the list published on another continent and sixty years later by Origen. 

It is evident that the elders of each congregation had approved certain writings and rejected others as they became available, and it turned out, by the grace of God, that most of the churches were by the year 170 in agreement, having approved the same books independently. Prominent teachers were also influential in this process. About that time bishops began to prevail in the Church, as governors of groups of churches, and they simply ratified with these lists the results thus arrived at. The approved books were then called the “canon” of Scripture, “canon” being a Greek word meaning “rod” or “ruler.” These books constituted the standard rule of faith for all the churches. We must not imagine that the canon was imposed by ecclesiastical authorities. The canon grew up by many independent decisions of elders who were responsible for their congregations alone.

Here is the end of his email:

it’s only when we find our identity as a son that the gates of hell will not prevail. i don’t enjoy writing this but i’m so grieved by what i’e been exposed to involving the conflict between you and randy and yet i know it’s just the tip of the iceberg. i don’t want any response from you, i just hope that you would have a more clear understanding where men like randy are at.

Not much else to say here. Except he is reffering to his special knowledge when he hopes I will have a clearer understanding.

And since I am uncovering the Manifest Sons of God movement here. I might as well strike down their universalism doctrine as well. I wrote the following webpage for a dear friend of mine who actually introduced me to Randy’s teachings, when he became involved in the manifest sons of God movement. He has since passed away, and have a blog entry on that as well, but the webpage is here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/wrath.html

I will post the highlights here:

They discovered that all creation will be brought to God. However, their conclusions of this truth are wrong. Of which I will show shortly, down further. Let’s look at the verses that the Universalists like to preach on:

Rom 5:
18: Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19: For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Universalists claim Jesus died for all. Just as humanity died in Adam. This is absolutely true. But this gift must be received. In truth, those who go to hell or the Lake of Fire, don’t go for sinning, but for their refusal to accept the gift of salvation by Jesus, because the price of their sin has been paid. Since they have rejected Christ, but they are still paid for, the Father takes them.
 

1 Cor 15:
22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
27: For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28: And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Yes, Jesus will subdue all things. But this doesn’t mean willingly. Some will be forced into submission, into God’s wrath. Which I will discuss further down the page.

Col 1:
19: For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Yes, God will reconcile all things. As I said above, some will be unwilling participants.

1 Tim 2:
4: Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6: Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Yes, God wants all to be saved, but He also gives them free will to say no.

1 Tim 4:
10: For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

The secret to this verse, is the word “specially”. All will be brought to God, but the special ones, will be going to heaven, the others in His wrath.

Eph 1:
10: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

It is through Christ’s work all things will come back to God. Some forcibly against their will into the wrath of God.

Phil 2:
9: Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11: And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

One can see a demonstration of this happening unwillingly in the christian movie, “The Omega Code 2: Megiddo”.

——————–

The christian church for years has preached the fate of the unbelievers will be the eternal absence from the presence of God and the Universalists see correctly this is wrong. But the Universalists incorrectly believe that all will turn to God or be made righteous. Both are untrue. I will now show how all creation, specifically the unbelievers and demons, will come into God. This is done, because the Lake of Fire is God. It is His wrath in full measure.

Let’s look at some scriptures showing God is fire, and specifically part of God is the Lake of Fire:
 

Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. 

Deuteronomy 5:24 And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire…

Deuteronomy 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them…

Psalms 68:2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God. 

Ezekiel 22:31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath…

2 Thess 1: 
7: And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 
8: In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 
9: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. 

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 

What is concluded from these scriptures:

1. God is fire (at least in part)
2. He can speak from His fire
2. The wicked will be punished in the presence of God and in His Fire, which thus is the same thing
4. This Fire of God is also part of His Glory
5. This Fire is His Wrath, and the Lake of Fire is His Full wrath

We can easily see that God’s presence is fire. And we see that the Lake of Fire is God’s wrath. God’s wrath is God’s presence. But those who are judged unto eternal torment will see this, while those saved will see His love. Both are equally God: Love and Fire. 

I know many christians don’t want to believe the Lake of Fire is part of God, but if it is not, then won’t there be a place in existence that has not been put inside of God? Then do not the Universalists have a valid point in the verses I shared above? The Bible is clear ALL creation and all things will be put in God. It’s just that some folks think it means all will be in heaven, heaven is not the only place in God, so is His eternal judgment of wrath:

2 Thess 1:
Darby:
  9: who shall pay the penalty [of] everlasting destruction from [the] presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might,

LITV:
9 who will pay the penalty: everlasting destruction from the face of the Lord, “and from the glory of His strength,”

And the clearest version of this verse yet:

Jubilee
9  who shall be punished with eternal destruction by the presence of the Lord and by the glory of his power,

I just discovered this Jubilee version, while making this page. I believed it to be “by” His presence before I ever saw that version. It is His presence and His glory that will perform the eternal destruction. Destruction is eternal, thus they will never be undone.

The Lake of Fire is God.