Randy discussed idolatry today. I agree many who criticize him have idolatry or had it. And some have yet to make Jesus Lord and are filled with bitterness.
Randy compared this to a football player who clipped him, of whom he idolized. He asked was it the football players error that he clipped him, which caused Randy to see the truth?
This is a deceptive question. Because they both erred.
There are people who are so bitter and angry at Randy, they do indeed live in sin and hatred and produce much of the flesh. This is why I am not involved in the other forum where many ex-CiMers have participated. But Randy ignores the fact that elders must be blameless.
Randy is so quick to follow this:
1Cor:5:11: But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
but is slow to obey this:
1 Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Titus 1:
6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7: For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Why is this? He confessed it today. He doesn’t want to be distracted from Lordship. This is wrong.
Math 23:23: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye … have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Luke11:42: But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye … pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Randy also discussed the idea that many are offended about his ministering to the women. It is true there is controversy about this. And I think both sides need to calm down and step back. Much of this problem would be understood if we realized who was reaching these women. It’s Randy, who has caused divorces and families to be broken up.
The question of whether a minister should take other wives camping is now secondary. Because Randy is disqualified from doing it at all.
But this is an issue which is hotly dividing 2 sides. I won’t choose a side on this. Randy said he has brought other men and his wife along so there wouldn’t be any improper temptations or appearance of evil. I cannot confirm or deny this. However if a qualified elder of a proper ministry offered a camping trip for women, and they had qualified men involved where no man by himself was with the women alone, I would say such an outing would be fine.
It I think is contested whether Randy actually had other men with him. I do not know. Perhaps their are 2 problems here. Those men who wouldn’t trust any ministry with their wives and Randy’s disqualification.
Since we are not discussing a legitimate qualified elder, the whole problem of whether such an outing is proper is moot. It simply does not matter. Randy shouldn’t be doing this, and the wives shouldn’t be trusting him, and the husbands and fathers shouldn’t allow it.
Randy mentioned these contested problems on the internet. And since I have not spoken about the concerns of headship vs lordship, I now know he is speaking about the other forum, where such discussions have been discussed.
Some would say that I and others who are following Christ should ignore that forum or those who are in the flesh. That is an extreme position of 1 Cor 5:11 quoted above. Scripture doesn’t say to abandon them, but not to keep company or eat with them.
There is a time where one may cut off all ties, such as when Paul did with the man who slept with his step-mother in Corinthians. There is such a line. Randy himself spoke only a week or 2 ago that sometimes you have a limited voice to those who have gone astray. There are those who have that limited voice, but my voice is not accepted at all over there any more, so I don’t have a choice.
Therefore, I am not going to denounce those that do love God and have some voice and try to still minister to such folk. In fact I wish they would use their voice more often. But its not for me to determine that as I am neither head nor lord.
I want to discuss another aspect of idolatry Randy did not mention. Though he asked was it the fault of the one being idolized? Many times no, but with some cases there is a joint blame in that sin.
Evidence #1: Randy’s message called “Kisser/Cleaver”
Randy created idolatry with his message of “Kisser/Cleaver”. He made men forget the Lordship of Jesus and His call on their lives by telling folks that those who kiss Randy and CiM and leave are not sons!
Evidence #2: the control of weddings. Randy made men believe that Randy was in control when he made it the administrations choice of who gets married to who.
Evidence #3: a former elder claims Randy said this: (loose quote) “Here’s how it works: God tells me His will for you - and then I will let you know what it is.”
Evidence #4: the administration made threats of harm to those who leave. There were stories told about how many people were in accidents and hurt when they left Marshall.
Randy and the administration has a history of making the sheep believe that the eldership was the authority and will of God.
When God originally told me to go to CiM, it was going to be for school only, but Randy’s messages and his method made me believe God wanted me to stay at CiM. He made me think that they were the voice of God’s will and direction for my life.
Randy has violated Lordship and Headship and has crossed the line of shepherding, whether he wants to admit it or not. While men have not lost free will and will be judged for their idolatry if not repented of, Randy and his team will also be judged for dropping this offense on the sheep.
Is there scripture stating Randy or any minister will share responsibility? Yes!
Luke 17:
1: Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
2: It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
James 3:1: My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
1 Cor 3:
12: Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13: Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
14: If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15: If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16: Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17: If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Math 18:
6: But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Randy is so quick to abandon those who have idoltry, so should we be quick to obey the scripture about those who cause it? Lets continue what Matthew says:
Math 18:
8: Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Such would be an extreme, but we must take the whole message:
10: Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11: For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12: How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13: And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14: Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
And thus we come to the proceedure to deal with those who have done wrong:
15: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
And so we see that Matthew 18 has alot to say on the subject, and verse 17 is where we are with Randy. This is done 2 fold, to help the sheep from being hurt and hope that Randy will repent.
Posted by Doma
Posted by Doma
Posted by Doma
