Consequence vs Condemnation

Today when Randy spoke, God really began to show me a distinction of the problem. It is Consequence vs Condemnation and Disqualified vs Punitive Sentence.

Randy spoke today against those that are condemning him. And he is right, partially.  He said that Jesus came not to condemn the world and that He took judgment away from us.

Randy spoke directly about the Internet accusations and judgments. Having been involved in these I know there are alot of people angry at him. Some of these people are condemning him and judging him.

But there needs to be a distinction.  Jesus has not come to bring such judgment. As long as Randy is a christian, he won’t be judged and sentenced to hell or the Lake of Fire.

Let me explain this difference. I have a friend who has a brother who committed a felony. He has been out of jail a long time, he paid his penalty, but now he can no longer vote or hunt. He has disqualified himself from these privileges. Here’s another example, my dad was in a car accident years ago. A young woman hit him without insurance. Now she can never drive again unless my dad legally excuses her. Another example, I was discharged from the Navy.  My discharge was not punitive (dishonourable) but nor was it honourable, it was an administrative (other than honorable) discharge, and I cannot get any veteran benefits from the Navy because of that.

You see there is a difference between punitive sentence or judgment verses disqualification of privileges from the consequences of actions.

Randy can remain close to God, and have a relationship with God despite his errors. This can be done through the work of Jesus by seeking forgiveness and mercy. But Jesus Himself has set up governmental qualifications. And just as women cannot be doma/5-fold ministers, neither can those men who are disqualified.  See my page on women ministers here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/doma2.html

Randy is disqualified from being an elder. Thus his current ministry is illegitimate. But this does not mean he is in punishment by God. A church position is different than heavenly position.

Gal:3:28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 

While women may not become elders and bishops, they are equal in Christ. And there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

The next point is, has Randy repented? Has Math 18 been followed to the point where Randy should be treated as a heathen and publican?

Math 18:
17: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

The word here to discern is “neglect”.

3878. parakouo par-ak-oo’-o from 3844 and 191; to mishear, i.e. (by implication) to disobey:–neglect to hear.

1) to hear aside

a) causally or carelessly or amiss

2) to be unwilling to hear

a) on hearing to neglect, to pay no heed to

b) to refuse to hear, pay no regard to, disobey

Some have claimed that Randy has done this, and that his repentance has been a show, and not real. Some claim that many of his testimonies are fake and made up. I have no evidence of this, nor has any meeting I know concluded this.

This is what Clarence Hill said in his letter afterwards:

Randy would give an arrogant display of control and non-submission to my apostolic authority, thus, bringing very little real fruit of restoration (their words were true).

It seems to me, we do not have enough public evidence. Today, Randy acknowledged publicly that the accusations on the Internet are true! He has repented before God. He even said that while he may still fall into controlling, that it no longer rules him.

This is evidence that Randy did not neglect the Math 18 meeting. However, he has been shown to have failed the qualifications of being a bishop/elder, negating his ability and privilege to minister as an elder or bishop.

From the Amplified Bible:

1 Cor 13:7

Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].

We must believe the best until proven otherwise. So if I have called CiM a cult, that would be equating Randy as a heathen. CiM is not a cult, but Randy’s ministry is illegitimate, because he is disqualified. While he may be disqualified as an elder/bishop, he is not disqualified as a doma. A doma is a gift and gifts are without repentance:

Rom:11:29: For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

I myself have a doma gift, but am disqualified from eldership because I fail to meet the requirements. Randy could have a Internet or street ministry, but he should not have eldership rule because he is disqualified as a bishop. The role he has now is by man and not by God. Men set up church governments, and throughout history we have seen the abuse of church government and we cannot put such authority in God. This is a failure of the church. I discuss church failure here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/churchfail.html

So what now? All I can do, and you can do, is call for Randy to step down, or for CiM to set him down. We also can call for a stop on the broadcasts of his service. I discuss how to do that here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/internet.html

I also advise boycotting any of his products, and do not give to his ministry. If you have strong interest in his books, get them used from 2ndary markets like Ebay and the like. Do not promote his ministry.

Latter Rain/Kingdom Reign

Today Dwayn spoke. And while I am not going to say CiM is a single or a great problem with what I am going to discuss, is because it’s a problem found in many churches today.

Today he said, “it’s going to take money to preach the gospel of the kingdom” and that physical blessings come from the prosperity of the soul, that prosperity comes from the word of God in the soul.

Now why would God reverse this process? Why would He take that which has the least value to Him (money) make it essential to bring about the Kingdom gospel message? Wouldn’t those who have had their souls saved, to bring about blessings in their life, automatically attract high attention? Wouldn’t their lives and testimonies be the method of bringing the Kingdom gospel?

They believe that they are working towards making the church a kingdom power, and that they will rule with authority. They are putting this hope in money. While they are saying the method of getting that wealth will be holy because they are saving their souls by the word of God, this is not how the latter rain/reign will come about.

This has been a hot topic lately, so in response to this (not CiM message, but the fact it is a hot topic), I wrote a new page on the subject.

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/latter.html

The Latter Rain/Reign

When and what is the latter reign/rain? Is it truly something we should look forward to be a part of? It is hard to truly pin down what the Latter Rain is, because there are so many opinions of it. But here is one generic definition:http://latter-rain.com/

The Latter Rain is God’s great end-time ministry. The Latter Rain is the Restoration of the Church and the Harvest of souls, the gathering together of His people to be God’s Kingdom on earth. The Latter Rain is the promise given to us in the last days for the outpouring of the Holy Ghost. 

Some folks who follow the latter reign beliefs, believe in the manifest sons of God doctrine, and have formed a latter rain movement, believing the church will become united, will become powerful, and will manifest great miracles. I am not going to get into the different beliefs. Many what I would call good christians simply believe in a 2nd extra strong work of the Holy Spirit and desire to be a part of it.

But I ask you, isn’t the church a transitional work, and that we are actually looking forward to another city or nation?

Heb:11:
9: By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
16: But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

13:14: For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Doesn’t scripture also give us a blessed hope to look forward to?

Ti:2:13: Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Heb:6:19: Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

Doesn’t Jesus Himself tell us where to put our treasures?

Mt:6:20: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also

I am not saying to neglect the church, or to dislike it, nor to not seek after the things of God. But our heart and hope should be heavenward, not movementward, chasing after manifestations of God. We must be cautious we are not looking to a 2nd powerful work of God, just to get involved in the power.

Luke 10:
17: And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
19: Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20: Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

We should be seeking God and His kingdom 1st. And then we can covet spiritual things.

Math 22:
36: Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38: This is the first and great commandment.

Mt:6:33: But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

1Cor:12:31: But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

So are there any scriptures about this latter rain? Yes, there are.

Joel 2:
23: Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

Zech. 10:
1: Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain; so the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.

So most are looking forward to this latter rain. And as I have shared, perhaps it shouldn’t be something we should look forward to. But does the scripture say more? Yes, lets continue in Zech 10:

2: For the idols have spoken vanity, and the diviners have seen a lie, and have told false dreams; they comfort in vain: therefore they went their way as a flock, they were troubled, because there was no shepherd.
3: Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah…

These verses are what I am saying, folks are following a false vision. They are misunderstanding the prophecy of Joel and what Peter had to say about the end times and the Holy Spirit. Solomon warned us about such things:

Ecc 1:  
9: The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.  
10: Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new?  it hath been already of old time, which was before us.  
11: There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.  

You see this latter reign, is not the 1st to be prophesied about. Israel was promised a latter rain as well. They have returned as a nation after being absent for thousands of years. Many who study prophecy are familiar with the prophesied years of Israel. But some may not know of this. I will go over some of this now.

http://www.raptureready.com/resource/wilson/w21.htm

DANIEL’S 70th WEEK 
Read carefully Daniel 9:20-27. One of the more important time periods in prophecy is commonly referred to by students of prophecy as “Daniel’s 70th Week.” …

The King James translation simply says, “70 weeks.” The literal translation is “70-7’s.” Since in Daniel 9:1, 2, we find Daniel concerned with 70 years, this context requires “70-7’s” to be 70-7’s of years, which is 490 years. 
Gabriel here is making known to Daniel that with the 70 years of captivity completed, God still shall deal with Israel for a period of 490 years. The 490 years, in our Scripture passage for this study, are divided into three periods: 

First: 7-7’s (49 years), in which time the city of Jerusalem shall be reconstructed (Nehemiah 2)…

Second: After this comes a period of 62-7’s (434 years), which is from the restoration of the city unto the cutting off of the Messiah. This takes place after the 49 years, which makes a total of 483 years. With the cutting off of the Messiah (crucifixion), God sets Israel aside and begins to call out of the Gentiles a people for His Name. This leaves: 

Third: 1-7 (7 years), which is still future. God still has 7 years of dealing with the children of Israel as a nation back in their land, the temple rebuilt, the priesthood and services reinaugurated…. This comes after the fulness of the Gentiles is come in, …and the beginning of the Tribulation period (7 years)…

Another good page on this is here:

 http://www.preceptaustin.org/daniel_924-27.htm 

I am not going to defend this theology here, they do an awesome job at the link above. My point here, is that Israel gets a latter rain, after they were cut off and had rejected Christ. Thus the latter reign of the church will come at such a time. Remember what Zechariah said:

Zech. 10:
1: Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain; so the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.
2: … therefore they went their way as a flock, they were troubled, because there was no shepherd
3: Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah…

You see “they were troubled“, “Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats“, “for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock“?

This is what is going to happen before the latter rain. There must be a purging of the church 1st. Those who preach the latter rain often preach about how the church is corrupt or divided. If so, how can the latter rain come without a purging. Does not scripture say:

1Pt:4:17: For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The writer of Hebrews speaks of this event.

Heb 12:
25: See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27: And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28: Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Please note what verse 25 says “See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven“.

So what happens to a christian who refuses to listen to Christ? Who turns away from Him. Is not this what the Israelites did when they were cut off? And then waited many years for their latter reign to come? And what is this escape that the writer speaks of, for those that do listen? This escape cannot mean escape from persecution in the last days. As scripture says otherwise:

Rev 6:  
9: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:  
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.  

Rev 13: 
4: … Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 
7: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them… 

Is this the same escape that Jesus promised through John in Revelation?

Rev 3: 10: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 

Interesting, Hebrews says to not refuse Him who speaks, Jesus says to keep His word, both speak of escape, but in Revelation we now learn what the escape is from. It’s from the hour of temptation. But let’s not guess what that is, because Jesus further defines this hour:

Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.  

Here Jesus is speaking to the church, and those in the church, as well as those outside the church, who have not listened to Him. Therefore we can see what brings about the Latter Rain. 

Jesus is going to remove the faithful christians and leave the unfaithful in the tribulation. But how do the unfaithful christians become faithful, to become those involved in the latter rain?

These people can be prophetically characterized by those who didn’t cross the Jordan for their promised inheritance. 2 1/2 tribes of Israel claimed their inheritance on the side of Jordan without crossing over into the promised land. Reuben was one of these. Gad is another son/tribe. What we know of Gad was they had a large herd of cattle as Reuben did. We also know this:  

Gen:49:19: Gad, a troop shall overcome him: but he shall overcome at the last. 

Let’s read more about these people.

Math 20: MKJV  
8 So when evening had come, the lord of the vineyard said to his steward, Call the laborers and pay them their wage, beginning from the last to the first.  
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would received more; and they also each one received a denarius.  
11 And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house,  
12 saying, These last have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and heat of the day.  
13 But he answered one of them and said, Friend, I do you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?  
14 Take yours, and go; I will give to this last one the same as to you.  
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last, for many are called, but few are chosen.  

Here we see the laborers who responded first, think they will receive a greater reward. Many christians who have crossed over Jordan are judgmental of those believers who have not crossed over or have crossed over later (see the parable of the lost son too). We also see from this parable that the late comers will be rewarded first. Why is this? Because they will be on the earth during the tribulation and will be found faithful. So much faithful, their faith and works will out weight those who were raptured.  

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from Heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they shall rest from their labors, and their works follow them.

So, some of these christians left behind will overcome and be the persecuted tribulation saints and some martyred, others will become those prophesied in the great apostasy. I speak about them here:

 The Great Apostasy 

As you can see, being a part of the Latter Rain, is not something to look forward to. It will be a time of great persecution. Sure they will get great rewards, even heavenly ones, but just as Jesus said:

13 But he answered one of them and said, Friend, I do you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?  
14 Take yours, and go…

I am not dismissing or despising the latter rain, it will indeed be a powerful time for the church. But the church will not have power over the nations. But the anti-christ will have power over the saints.

Rev 13: 
4: … Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 
7: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them… 

The power the church will have, will be within itself. They will probably have protection against the judgments of God on the earth, and will probably be powerful witnesses with the 2 prophets and the 144,000. But they will not have full protection against the beast. They may have some power to help hide each other from the beast and to feed themselves. Similar to the communal life style the church had at the beginning like in Acts.

If anyone is looking for a great future spiritual harvest, it will occur after the tribulation during the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Responsibility vs Forgiveness

Today Randy spoke about walking free from satan. And walking in the place God has for you. He gave a “word” saying God said, “I am responsible”. And he went on saying, “All is well with my soul”. He then said, that God is saying, “I will keep you in your territory”. When defining the word “preamble”. He continued, “I don’t step out of these boundaries, and lucifer doesn’t step in.”

What’s the problem with this? Isn’t this the postion of just standing in Christ? Believing those things that be not as though they were? Perhaps. But we must remember we cannot manifest that truth on this earth in this flesh completely. We will continue to fall and fail, and we indeed should keep those truths before us as a goal. But scripture tells us we are responsible, and we cannot just live carefree when we sin against others. Unless you have repented and have walked away from that sin.

Elders are required to be blameless:

1 Tim 3:2  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Titus 1:6  If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7:  For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Elders are not to be novices:

1Tm:3:6: Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Ministry must be in order:

1Cor:14:40: Let all things be done decently and in order.

We cannot break these qualifications and walk carefree.

There is a balance. I know that we can walk free from the cleansing of God, but we will have consequences in our life, in particular if we refuse to walk away from the sin or errors we have fallen in.

Randy cannot trample on the sheep, their food, slaughtering the flock, and walk carefree. He can if he repents and stops such actions.

At the end of the service Randy spoke about some people who keep their scent for years, and are unchanged, revealing their sonship status. Randy himself has time and time again caused divisions in families. He cannot just brush this off in a carefree, it is forgiven attitude, without consequence.

Randy also had spoken about being in meetings where he was exposed or addressed by men, when he believed did not represent God, but themselves and their own agendas. He is referring to the corrections that I am discussing here. How can he ignore the damage he has done to others, and continues to do, whether personally, or through the administration he set up, and think he can be carefree? Scripture is clear Randy and every elder must be blameless.

Jms:3:1: My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.